Nothing else matters. All else is rhetoric from now till November. Accept, Trump is convicted on rape, corrupt business practices, and committing crimes to influence the election. He is a felon. Now, vote. Get out the vote. Complete his sentencing to ignominy, if not prison as well, at the ballot boxes across the country. Defeat this felon at the ballot box. Amen.
"Much of this country never heard the facts of the case in that Manhattan courtroom. Instead, they heard right-wing pundits, who are paid handsomely to proclaim his innocence."
This is not only about the base, the undecided, or the pundits. Or this election. This is about the entire Republican party, plutocrats such as Charles Koch et al, apparatchiks such as Leonard Leo, and antidemocratic initiatives such as the Federalist Society, the Heritage Society Project 2025, and the Teneo Network - repurposing an American democratic republic as a corporate clerical fascist state. Through peculiarities of the Constitution they've skewed the Senate. Through gerrymandering they've skewed the House. Through court capture they've bent the judiciary. Through Trump they intend to institute an imperial presidency. David Remnick wrote of the 'treacly obeisance' of Speaker Mike Johnson. Add to that the sour obeisance of Mitch McConnell. These - and Russia, Iran, China, North Korea, and Elon Musk, Jill Stein, RFKJR, Cornell West,,et al - will shape what much of the country will hear about the trial. But it is heartening that a jury which heard the facts convicted Trump.
Not entirely the case. My husband and I are registered Independent voters basing our decisions on a candidate's past and current actions on behalf of our nation at the local, state, and federal levels. The country was on a slippery slope for many years and now that we have hit rock bottom we had a sensible jury point to the right direction of future actions. We held our breath in hopes that this first verdict would be the first of many and not merely for the former president. We have a lot of Housekeeping to do.
Most importantly we hope that the strangle hold on common sense is lessened and both parties can focus on the country rather than trying to count the other guy out. Is it wishful thinking to see more handshakes across the aisle by honest, intelligent people?
My apologies to you and your husband, Barbara, and the many independents caught up in my net. For the many independents I encounter, they either are basking in a place to deny party affiliation or do not realize that their choice counts and the political process we live in (primaries, two parties) comes down to choosing between two winnable candidates regardless of how many might be on the ticket for ANY office. Down tickets, sure, it might be OKish to vote for the underdog, if electablity among the two main candidates isn't the issue. But, even then, we all live with the results. In this election, please don't vote for anyone out of protest. We saw what happened in 2016. We are living with that honorable protesting. We don't have rank-ordered voting. In my district in 2022, we ended up with a rank MAGA representative. We are living with his voting record. We gotta choose the one we expect can serve us and is willing to have positions on the issues we care about and believe to be important to our communities and the nation. As a reformed independent, if I can't honorably choose one for a particular office, I'd not vote for that office, but I'd sure get out and vote in the election. Please make your best and most informed choice, whoever that is this November. Be well and thanks for your response.
We can’t just give the Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society a pass. There are names of their members and the companies and businesses that they own and run. They need to hear our immense displeasure with the dangerous rhetoric and plans encompassed in Project 2025. The authors of it should face consequences for it, so it never happens.
agree one thousand percent. He is sick in the head I think, pathologically lying constantly, and so many people who should know better don't see this. It is very frightening.
Ok, so here’s my idea. After reading and watching A Gentleman in Moscow, why not sentence 45 to life inside Mar-A-Lago or the Trump Tower (Tower being fitting). He cannot step off the property, have any social media accounts, etc. That way he will need only minimal security and won’t be on the tax payers’ dime.
The President does not “pass ….legislation;” Congress does. The President has used the power of the federal government to try to get some regulations on police departments if I remember correctly.
What and who do you like. I’d like you to post one positive comment here? What suggestions do you have for solving our country’s problems. Do you like your Congressional Rep? Your Senator? Yes, Biden made mistakes; anyone in a 30-year career in government is going to make some.
That is not true and you know it! There have been laws in place for Blacks, not against them. Now, they are being adhered to much more rigorously than before. I know there are a few who are commenting against Blacks but there are a few who are commenting against whites, against Muslims, against...... I could make a great list! But you are wrong about Democrats being against Blacks. Sorry but I'm not agreeing with you. I see much more positive influences than negative.
Whether right or wrong (a bit of both usually) your comments pain me to hear that you would give up your vote to the ether rather than participate in an election. It would be great if strides toward Diversity, Equality, and Inclusivity happen more quickly and sustained into the future. Voting will help push us in the right direction.
Of course the Biden administration had nothing to do with this prosecution, but since Trump supporters have no idea how the legal system, or any other aspect of government, works, they will not understand this, and Trump, Fox, etc., reinforce their ignorance.
The Electoral College must go. The majority must prevail as we redefine our democracy. Schools must teach civics and leave religion to churches. With this conviction my head is spinning with hope.
The point is, we need to get rid of "battleground states." A few states shouldn't get to decide every election. The Electoral College's "winner takes all" for each state needs to go. It should be one person, one vote when it comes to presidential elections. (Yes, even if it doesn't always go the way I want it to.) https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/newsletter/2020-11-07/arts-newsletter-template-essential-arts
That takes a rewrite the constitution. States have the power to make those decisions. The system was weighted, intentionally, in favor of rural and small states to get unanimous approval for a united states constitution. Electoral reform requires amending the constitution. On the other hand, if we allow the courts, Congress and the rule of law to be torn down, we won’t have to worry about it. All those decisions will be made without our input. Meanwhile, as we still have some semblance of our democratic institutions, those who don’t support a right wing authoritarian agenda will continue to need in the range of 50% +7 to 10% majority.
You can see here that only in the past 20 years have we had such consistently narrow presidential elections where the popular vote was within a few percentage points.
How are the "courts, Congress and rule of law to be torn down" affecting the current Electoral College system? It's working as designed. It's not designed to be a popular vote.
The fact that a couple elections have been won while not winning the popular vote is an example of why the Electoral College works. It was a compromise that has an element of the popular vote built in, but is not solely dependent on just popular vote.
Imagine if the state of Texas had 100 Million voters and 85% voted for one candidate. So 85 Million people in Texas would effectively decide the election for the entire country. I don't think that would be desired.
Sorry, but I don't see Trump getting elected while having lost the popular vote by 3 million as an example of the Electoral College "working." It is a minoritarian system and should be scrapped or bypassed (a la the National Popular Vote initiative).
More than a couple. And it’s becoming more of a risk. Yes, it’s become a problem in the last 20 years as the majority in the popular vote has shrunk. So here’s a reasonable solution that works around the constitutional requirement. It preserves the well as a majority and the constitution.
It was also the meaning of a Supreme Court decision, Reynolds v. Sims, in 1964. To the extent that it doesn't bear a relationship to reality today, that's primarily, if not exclusively, the Republicans' fault at this point. But then for at least the last 50 years, Republicans haven't given a damn about the law where their own behavior is concerned.
Well, mostly. Every state gets two electors, just as it has two senators, regardless of population. Then, based on population, they get anywhere between one more elector (as in Wyoming) and dozens more (New York, California, Texas, etc.).
But the biggest problem with the Electoral College is the chosen Electors are sworn to commit to a specific candidate of a specific political party. They are not free to 'vote' for any other person, any other political party. It bears a harsh similarity to elections in Russia or other dictator type governments
That's like saying our system "bears a harsh similarity to elections in Russia" because we don't vote on laws, we elect representatives and senators to do it for us. It's not ideal, but neither is it a symptom of autocracy.
Wow, another Joyce with great wisdom! I agree with you on all these points. I can't say my head is spinning with hope, but there is at least the promise of light at the end of the tunnel (otherwise known as election day!). Thank you, Joyce, and thank you, Dan!
A possible 'fix' for the Electoral College: All but two states have a 'winner take all' slate of electors. ME and NE split the electors based on the popular vote (more specifically, by 'districts', I believe). If all states did that there would be no 'swing states' and the popular vote winner would be more than likely to win the College.
In order for that to work, gerrymandering has to be dealt with. I am a Nebraskan, and I was quite pleased when one of our split electoral votes went to Obama in 2008. The Republicans quickly redistricted so that it wouldn’t happen again. And just recently, they’ve done it again. Republican state legislators are also trying to get rid of the split electoral vote altogether.
Yeah, about that: 'Gerrymandering' (once a bad word) is now sanctioned by the supreme court (HA). The USA needs to set up a square grid over the map (like plats) to establish the federal 'districts'. Leave politics out of it.
They are trying with the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact: https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/. An Electoral College fix, as I understand it, would require a Constitutional Amendment & that process via a Constitutional Convention might open a can of worms.
These folks are trying to do this w/o having to do a Constitutional Amendment: The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact: https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/
Yes, it preserves both the voters rights and the will of the majority without the laborious rewriting of the constitution which would take forever to be ratified. An amendment that could be adopted and ratified carries risks of its own of unintended consequences which is why we’re in this situation.
we can not change the Electoral college situation in this political moment, it takes a constitutional convention to change it and the Koch political "machine" has an entire agenda planned for subverting it, if we do a constitutional convention at this time. They've been preparing and planning for that for 40 years, and so....it's not worth it to risk it.
It gives disproportionate power to less-populous states, and it's a relic of slavery, when the less-populated enslaving states (remember, black people counted as only 3/5 of a person under the original Constitution) were given that advantage to convince them to join the Union.
Not sure what the Electoral College has to do with race today.
You deem it disproportionate, I don't. We are a Union of 50 states and I think the Electoral College helps maintain some balance so that a large population in one area (as an example) doesn't have the ability to fully control something in another area. For example, if there were 200 million people that lived in Texas, I wouldn't want (in effect) zero say in a Presidential election, if I live in Alaska.
If one person one vote were practiced, there would be no need for the electoral college. This would require that the person who got the most votes would win. Sounds good to me.
I'm not sure I get your point. If the presidential election were a pure popular vote, then a vote in Alaska would count as much as a vote in Texas. Now, with most states firmly in one party's camp or the other, candidates only really worry about six or seven so-called swing states.
The point is that people in Alaska have more say in today's elections due to the Electoral College than they would under a pure popular vote system. We are a Union and the Electoral College gives each state a meaningful voice in the process.
Meaningful in what way? A few voters in a few states over ruling the majority means doesn’t say to voters their participation is meaningful — unless of course, they are willing to live in a country where that minority rules. And yes, this was compromise to get the slave states to sign on to the constitution. Now that our politics have changed, campaigns have computer driven get out the votes strategies, legislation is written based on computer algorithms to favor the majority state party we have an unintended consequence. Add to that the gutting of the civil rights voting act and other protections.
No, the POINT is that, per SCOTUS, the law is one person, one vote and has been for 60 years. Under the Electoral College, some people's votes count more than others.
Chris, I know that EVERY vote counts or its not a fair election. I aslo know that as long as we keep the electoral college some votes will count and other votes won't count at al. I also know that in 2000 and 2016, the electoral college installed two presidents that were not elected by the American people. Therefore, I want the electoral college gone - forever.
Chris, if every citizen's vote counted Al Gore would have been president in 2000 and Hillary Clinton would have been president in 2016. Since that is not what happened, you tell me whose votes did count?
We don’t elect our President by popular vote. People vote (all who want to and are eligible to) and then it follows the Electoral College process. Everyone’s votes still counted.
It’s ok if you don’t like that process.
It can be changed legally via an amendment to our Constitution through our elected representatives (who we can elect via popular vote).
Judge Merchan has earned my total respect and the jury has earned my total admiration. They've restored my confidence in our system of justice.
We must not see this as a trial about Trump's moral failings, hush money payments, or association with unsavory characters. It was a trial about falsification of business records for the purpose of interfering in an election. That's what he did that was illegal and the jury found him guilty of.
The polls from before the verdict are meaningless, except as future historical data points. The news needs to settle in before any polls can be considered valid, and even then, subject to invalidation as we get closer to November 5.
Unlike many on the right, I, and I suspect many others here, were prepared to accept the outcome even if it had gone the other way. I'm glad it didn't, but I had confidence in the outcome either way.
I was prepared for a hung jury or acquittal, although my sense of the trial, from news reports, was that the prosecution did a good job, while the defense had to listen too much to their client's demands. So I am thrilled that the jury followed the evidence and voted accordingly.
Trump should never be allowed near the White House again period. He has desecrated everything he ever touched, including Christianity by portraying himself as a second Jesus. The Republicans have dug themselves into a trench and I hope they stay there. Tank all of their ratings at the ballot box.
Susan, you’d think that Christians, especially, would be wary of worshiping a Golden Calf Idol…and a fake-gold plated one at that. I just can’t wrap my head around why “regular” folks worship him….the $$$-folks, yeah, for tax reasons, but the rest, no.
Immediately I went to Fox News….. what a sh@t show! CNN wasn’t much better. None of the main stream media is pointing out the 12 jurors sat and heard the evidence whereas Trump supporters are salivating over him calling it a “witch-hunt” and patting themselves on the back for not being willing to even look at the evidence.
My thanks to this jury for taking duty to heart! Please stay safe!💕
One of the reporters who had been in court everyday - from MSNBC, I think - commented on the highly attentive, focused demeanor of all of the jurors during the trial. Performing one's civic duty at its finest. Steady, indeed.
Yes, The safety of the jurors should be a priority. They requested to go over some of the previous statements and the direction of the judge. May they be safe !
My sister and I watched the verdicts being read on live TV. We cried and cheered and hugged and texted our family members. It was a historic moment and it felt like it. Don’t know what’s ahead but this was a great day.
Many of you Americans may not realize but I live 30 miles south of Detroit. What happens in the U.S. has a profound effect on we Canadians who live so close to the border. And my fellow Canadians as well who,live north of me!
I was beginning to hope that the "support Canadian" I was promised November of 2015 would finally be assigned to me because this has become an absolute hellscape. Thank you all for understanding that we're not all the same. It has been exhausting for us to live through this absolute nightmare.
DA Alvin Bragg has shown that no one is above the law. A jury of average people acted on the facts of the case. Now the Supreme Court needs to be held to an ethical standard. Both are necessary to return this nation to an even keel.
I'm still reminding everyone I can (from this news space several weeks ago): When I go to the poll, it will be to vote for democracy and for the USA to remain a democratic country. To vote for T is to vote for a dictator, and now a felon.
I am with you 100%! I, too, have been reminding family and friends that the vote this year is about DEMOCRACY! If you want DEMOCRACY, vote for Biden whether you like him or not. If you prefer fascism, vote for trump and you'll get your foolish wish.
trump is a narcissistic black hole, who only wants power. Anyone who thinks he cares about the United States and its citizens is a fool.
His convicted status won’t matter to the vast majority of the former Republican Party. It’s a cult following. Racism, bigotry, patriarchal society, complete control over women, guns and more guns, christian nationalism, corporate greed, government in your bedroom and church in your school, abolishing taxes is what matters to them. Their vote is for that; the name on the ballot is of secondary importance.
This is so sadly true. No matter what he says or does it does not matter. The followers have completely sold their souls. I keep thinking that people I know and love no matter the crime, have stood by him to the point that we cannot even mention any politics.
I am concerned about the repercussions of this court hearing.… I have a very good friend who is pro Trump/husband watches Faux …and tonight she texted to say she couldn’t come over because she had just found out about Trump and was too upset.
I am sorry for you. For me, this would not be something I could not live with. Trump is evil. Everything he says about Biden is called Gaslighting. This is when they turn and accuse the sane people like us, the evil ones. Example: We know that he is wanting to be like Putin and
Hitler but now he is accusing Biden of being a Facist.
On a relative basis, the folks who make up his base pay little in taxes. The don't seem to realize that they are enabling a completely different demographic - the one Mr. T ACTUALLY cares about. Duped, sadly; but proud to blindly follow him nonetheless.
The MAGA crazies will believe he’s being persecuted. But sensible Republicans and Independents will see him for what he really is. A crook, a grifter, a liar and a sad human being full of hate.
I am not sure he’s even human. He seems not to care for any living being besides his Narcissistic self which is typical of the Narcissist. He’s not Presidential material for one thing because he is incapable of relating to others pain or even joy. He is incapable of human love except for himself. He only loves himself, he’s incapable of human love. He’s incapable of relating to anyone else. He will always put himself first, second and so on. He will never understand what he’s done wrong either. Is he even human?
I have to sadly disagree with the statement that the Repubs and Indies will come around but they have not. Fox News is still spewing lies. With 91 indictments, one of which is denying his part in the BIG LIE which he still tells along with his innocence of being guilty anything is a witch hunt and persecuted. I pray for the Judge and the members of the jury for the retribution that will be slung their way.
True but they want the power so they stick with him. Look at Mike Johnson, i really thought he might have some integrity after he did the right thing with the aide to Ukraine and Israel bills but no, now he’s showing his true colors.
The Rule of Law prevailed … expect the MAGA folks to rail against WE THE PEOPLE … they want the Rule of Donald … we have much more work to do in order to preserve the concept of democracy (government of the people, by the people and for the people) and our democratic republic. This is a step in the right direction! Go USA!
I’m really glad Trump was convicted. If Trump is above the law then it’s time we changed the law and get rid of the electoral college, stopping gerrymandering and set term limits, legalize medical cannabis, get single payer health care, subsidized higher education, protect our public schools, get some controls on monopolies, set term limits and ethical standards for the legislature and Supreme Court, and protect women’s choices (among other things). How about we review the rules for running for president and legislature and consider basic qualifications besides wealth. While we are add it stop political PACs and corporations having human rights. BTW, everything isn’t about race or sexism. Save our social security and stop subsiding big corporations.
Now let’s beat Trump by a landslide in November and let him spend the rest of his days in court and in prison.
Nothing else matters. All else is rhetoric from now till November. Accept, Trump is convicted on rape, corrupt business practices, and committing crimes to influence the election. He is a felon. Now, vote. Get out the vote. Complete his sentencing to ignominy, if not prison as well, at the ballot boxes across the country. Defeat this felon at the ballot box. Amen.
"Much of this country never heard the facts of the case in that Manhattan courtroom. Instead, they heard right-wing pundits, who are paid handsomely to proclaim his innocence."
This is not only about the base, the undecided, or the pundits. Or this election. This is about the entire Republican party, plutocrats such as Charles Koch et al, apparatchiks such as Leonard Leo, and antidemocratic initiatives such as the Federalist Society, the Heritage Society Project 2025, and the Teneo Network - repurposing an American democratic republic as a corporate clerical fascist state. Through peculiarities of the Constitution they've skewed the Senate. Through gerrymandering they've skewed the House. Through court capture they've bent the judiciary. Through Trump they intend to institute an imperial presidency. David Remnick wrote of the 'treacly obeisance' of Speaker Mike Johnson. Add to that the sour obeisance of Mitch McConnell. These - and Russia, Iran, China, North Korea, and Elon Musk, Jill Stein, RFKJR, Cornell West,,et al - will shape what much of the country will hear about the trial. But it is heartening that a jury which heard the facts convicted Trump.
Absolutely spot on with your reply.
I just like to add that it is a real tragedy that a member of the Kennedy Clan is so much off-track, with extreme views on many things.
Not only are his views extreme, but he could cost lives, especially children’s lives, with his anti vax rhetoric.
Absolutely. His rhetoric is very dangerous
Yes, Lin. The independents will revile the court decision without consideration while spouting (not quoting) nonsense from Fox.
Not entirely the case. My husband and I are registered Independent voters basing our decisions on a candidate's past and current actions on behalf of our nation at the local, state, and federal levels. The country was on a slippery slope for many years and now that we have hit rock bottom we had a sensible jury point to the right direction of future actions. We held our breath in hopes that this first verdict would be the first of many and not merely for the former president. We have a lot of Housekeeping to do.
Most importantly we hope that the strangle hold on common sense is lessened and both parties can focus on the country rather than trying to count the other guy out. Is it wishful thinking to see more handshakes across the aisle by honest, intelligent people?
My apologies to you and your husband, Barbara, and the many independents caught up in my net. For the many independents I encounter, they either are basking in a place to deny party affiliation or do not realize that their choice counts and the political process we live in (primaries, two parties) comes down to choosing between two winnable candidates regardless of how many might be on the ticket for ANY office. Down tickets, sure, it might be OKish to vote for the underdog, if electablity among the two main candidates isn't the issue. But, even then, we all live with the results. In this election, please don't vote for anyone out of protest. We saw what happened in 2016. We are living with that honorable protesting. We don't have rank-ordered voting. In my district in 2022, we ended up with a rank MAGA representative. We are living with his voting record. We gotta choose the one we expect can serve us and is willing to have positions on the issues we care about and believe to be important to our communities and the nation. As a reformed independent, if I can't honorably choose one for a particular office, I'd not vote for that office, but I'd sure get out and vote in the election. Please make your best and most informed choice, whoever that is this November. Be well and thanks for your response.
👏👏👏👍
We can’t just give the Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society a pass. There are names of their members and the companies and businesses that they own and run. They need to hear our immense displeasure with the dangerous rhetoric and plans encompassed in Project 2025. The authors of it should face consequences for it, so it never happens.
blue wave coming 💙🇺🇸💙🇺🇸💙🇺🇸💙🇺🇸💙🇺🇸💙
We need a massive BLUE WAVE to wash away the toxic RED TIDE!
agree one thousand percent. He is sick in the head I think, pathologically lying constantly, and so many people who should know better don't see this. It is very frightening.
Yes we will beat this convicted felon. He will now be remembered in the history as a president who is a convicted felon.
And impeached twice. Thank you Mitch.
Right on! Fred! Let's get done!
#VoteBlueUpandDowntheBallot
#VoteBidenHarris2024
Amen!!!
Thanks Carol!
His ‘hell on Earth’ is endless court time brought on by his own actions. Burn, baby, burn.
💙🇺🇸💙🇺🇸💙🇺🇸💙🇺🇸💙
So it will be. Maybe not the prison part. That'd be such hell on the Service detail, don't you think?
No secret service for him behind bars. Why should they have to suffer his misery? They didn’t do anything wrong.
If they Exile tRump to Prison in Guantanamo, no Secret Service personnel will be needed. A secure facility and out of touch from the world.
It's where he belongs, for LIFE!
Best Regards to you Sandra.
Ok, so here’s my idea. After reading and watching A Gentleman in Moscow, why not sentence 45 to life inside Mar-A-Lago or the Trump Tower (Tower being fitting). He cannot step off the property, have any social media accounts, etc. That way he will need only minimal security and won’t be on the tax payers’ dime.
I really like that! He will have his Golden toilet too!
This is a brilliant idea-- with an ankle bracelet so they know where he is at all times....
I think the idea is great but he isn't going to be keeping that place for long. He isn't going to have the money to pay for it.
Yes no Secret Service detail as he will be fully catered for...an Orange suit, a tray and a bowl.....
They could absolutely make it work.
hahaha.
Here here!!
#BidenHarris2024
#VoteBlueUpandDowntheBallot
blue wave coming 💙🇺🇸💙🇺🇸💙🇺🇸💙🇺🇸💙🇺🇸💙🇺🇸💙
YES!!!!!!
In prison with full board accommodation....
In Gitmo with the rest of the terrorists
The President does not “pass ….legislation;” Congress does. The President has used the power of the federal government to try to get some regulations on police departments if I remember correctly.
Oh dear!!! I see you too blame everything on someone you don't like, true or not.
What and who do you like. I’d like you to post one positive comment here? What suggestions do you have for solving our country’s problems. Do you like your Congressional Rep? Your Senator? Yes, Biden made mistakes; anyone in a 30-year career in government is going to make some.
That is not true and you know it! There have been laws in place for Blacks, not against them. Now, they are being adhered to much more rigorously than before. I know there are a few who are commenting against Blacks but there are a few who are commenting against whites, against Muslims, against...... I could make a great list! But you are wrong about Democrats being against Blacks. Sorry but I'm not agreeing with you. I see much more positive influences than negative.
Whether right or wrong (a bit of both usually) your comments pain me to hear that you would give up your vote to the ether rather than participate in an election. It would be great if strides toward Diversity, Equality, and Inclusivity happen more quickly and sustained into the future. Voting will help push us in the right direction.
Might wanna blame the republican filled congress for that all this. Not the president.
Of course the Biden administration had nothing to do with this prosecution, but since Trump supporters have no idea how the legal system, or any other aspect of government, works, they will not understand this, and Trump, Fox, etc., reinforce their ignorance.
The Electoral College must go. The majority must prevail as we redefine our democracy. Schools must teach civics and leave religion to churches. With this conviction my head is spinning with hope.
Totally agree with you. Acreage doesn't vote. People do.
The Electoral College is based off of people, not acreage. The more people in a state, the more Electoral Votes that state gets.
The point is, we need to get rid of "battleground states." A few states shouldn't get to decide every election. The Electoral College's "winner takes all" for each state needs to go. It should be one person, one vote when it comes to presidential elections. (Yes, even if it doesn't always go the way I want it to.) https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/newsletter/2020-11-07/arts-newsletter-template-essential-arts
That takes a rewrite the constitution. States have the power to make those decisions. The system was weighted, intentionally, in favor of rural and small states to get unanimous approval for a united states constitution. Electoral reform requires amending the constitution. On the other hand, if we allow the courts, Congress and the rule of law to be torn down, we won’t have to worry about it. All those decisions will be made without our input. Meanwhile, as we still have some semblance of our democratic institutions, those who don’t support a right wing authoritarian agenda will continue to need in the range of 50% +7 to 10% majority.
You can see here that only in the past 20 years have we had such consistently narrow presidential elections where the popular vote was within a few percentage points.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/United-States-Presidential-Election-Results-1788863
Here is an alternative solution that does not require a rewrite of the constitution and preserves the majority vote. Some states have already agreed. https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation
How are the "courts, Congress and rule of law to be torn down" affecting the current Electoral College system? It's working as designed. It's not designed to be a popular vote.
I said if they are torn down, we won’t have to worry about it. Another words, we won’t have to worry about the electoral college..
The fact that a couple elections have been won while not winning the popular vote is an example of why the Electoral College works. It was a compromise that has an element of the popular vote built in, but is not solely dependent on just popular vote.
Imagine if the state of Texas had 100 Million voters and 85% voted for one candidate. So 85 Million people in Texas would effectively decide the election for the entire country. I don't think that would be desired.
Sorry, but I don't see Trump getting elected while having lost the popular vote by 3 million as an example of the Electoral College "working." It is a minoritarian system and should be scrapped or bypassed (a la the National Popular Vote initiative).
I appreciate your opinion. It's working as it was designed and can be changed through an amendment to our Constitution.
More than a couple. And it’s becoming more of a risk. Yes, it’s become a problem in the last 20 years as the majority in the popular vote has shrunk. So here’s a reasonable solution that works around the constitutional requirement. It preserves the well as a majority and the constitution.
https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation
Why are close elections where "the majority in the popular vote is getting shrunk" a problem?
"One person, one vote" actually has been the law of the land for about 60 years.
That's an oft-quoted slogan which bears little relation to reality.
It was also the meaning of a Supreme Court decision, Reynolds v. Sims, in 1964. To the extent that it doesn't bear a relationship to reality today, that's primarily, if not exclusively, the Republicans' fault at this point. But then for at least the last 50 years, Republicans haven't given a damn about the law where their own behavior is concerned.
Well, mostly. Every state gets two electors, just as it has two senators, regardless of population. Then, based on population, they get anywhere between one more elector (as in Wyoming) and dozens more (New York, California, Texas, etc.).
But the biggest problem with the Electoral College is the chosen Electors are sworn to commit to a specific candidate of a specific political party. They are not free to 'vote' for any other person, any other political party. It bears a harsh similarity to elections in Russia or other dictator type governments
That's like saying our system "bears a harsh similarity to elections in Russia" because we don't vote on laws, we elect representatives and senators to do it for us. It's not ideal, but neither is it a symptom of autocracy.
I was Specific about the Electoral College Lex, Not "our (entire) system". Changing the entire meaning of a comment isn't editing.
But it's proportionate only to a certain point, which is not even close to being one-to-one.
Wow, another Joyce with great wisdom! I agree with you on all these points. I can't say my head is spinning with hope, but there is at least the promise of light at the end of the tunnel (otherwise known as election day!). Thank you, Joyce, and thank you, Dan!
One person one vote. The way it should be.
When mythology becomes government democracy dies.
A possible 'fix' for the Electoral College: All but two states have a 'winner take all' slate of electors. ME and NE split the electors based on the popular vote (more specifically, by 'districts', I believe). If all states did that there would be no 'swing states' and the popular vote winner would be more than likely to win the College.
In order for that to work, gerrymandering has to be dealt with. I am a Nebraskan, and I was quite pleased when one of our split electoral votes went to Obama in 2008. The Republicans quickly redistricted so that it wouldn’t happen again. And just recently, they’ve done it again. Republican state legislators are also trying to get rid of the split electoral vote altogether.
Yeah, about that: 'Gerrymandering' (once a bad word) is now sanctioned by the supreme court (HA). The USA needs to set up a square grid over the map (like plats) to establish the federal 'districts'. Leave politics out of it.
They are trying with the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact: https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/. An Electoral College fix, as I understand it, would require a Constitutional Amendment & that process via a Constitutional Convention might open a can of worms.
These folks are trying to do this w/o having to do a Constitutional Amendment: The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact: https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/
Yes, it preserves both the voters rights and the will of the majority without the laborious rewriting of the constitution which would take forever to be ratified. An amendment that could be adopted and ratified carries risks of its own of unintended consequences which is why we’re in this situation.
we can not change the Electoral college situation in this political moment, it takes a constitutional convention to change it and the Koch political "machine" has an entire agenda planned for subverting it, if we do a constitutional convention at this time. They've been preparing and planning for that for 40 years, and so....it's not worth it to risk it.
Agree!!
Most people don't even understand how the Electoral College works. Why do you want it to go?
It gives disproportionate power to less-populous states, and it's a relic of slavery, when the less-populated enslaving states (remember, black people counted as only 3/5 of a person under the original Constitution) were given that advantage to convince them to join the Union.
Not sure what the Electoral College has to do with race today.
You deem it disproportionate, I don't. We are a Union of 50 states and I think the Electoral College helps maintain some balance so that a large population in one area (as an example) doesn't have the ability to fully control something in another area. For example, if there were 200 million people that lived in Texas, I wouldn't want (in effect) zero say in a Presidential election, if I live in Alaska.
If one person one vote were practiced, there would be no need for the electoral college. This would require that the person who got the most votes would win. Sounds good to me.
I'm not sure I get your point. If the presidential election were a pure popular vote, then a vote in Alaska would count as much as a vote in Texas. Now, with most states firmly in one party's camp or the other, candidates only really worry about six or seven so-called swing states.
The point is that people in Alaska have more say in today's elections due to the Electoral College than they would under a pure popular vote system. We are a Union and the Electoral College gives each state a meaningful voice in the process.
Meaningful in what way? A few voters in a few states over ruling the majority means doesn’t say to voters their participation is meaningful — unless of course, they are willing to live in a country where that minority rules. And yes, this was compromise to get the slave states to sign on to the constitution. Now that our politics have changed, campaigns have computer driven get out the votes strategies, legislation is written based on computer algorithms to favor the majority state party we have an unintended consequence. Add to that the gutting of the civil rights voting act and other protections.
No, the POINT is that, per SCOTUS, the law is one person, one vote and has been for 60 years. Under the Electoral College, some people's votes count more than others.
Chris, I know that EVERY vote counts or its not a fair election. I aslo know that as long as we keep the electoral college some votes will count and other votes won't count at al. I also know that in 2000 and 2016, the electoral college installed two presidents that were not elected by the American people. Therefore, I want the electoral college gone - forever.
Whose votes don't count?
Chris, if every citizen's vote counted Al Gore would have been president in 2000 and Hillary Clinton would have been president in 2016. Since that is not what happened, you tell me whose votes did count?
We don’t elect our President by popular vote. People vote (all who want to and are eligible to) and then it follows the Electoral College process. Everyone’s votes still counted.
It’s ok if you don’t like that process.
It can be changed legally via an amendment to our Constitution through our elected representatives (who we can elect via popular vote).
Chris, please take your lecture to a kindergarten class.
And a tip of the hat to the dedicated jurors who used their sense of justice to vote for what they found to be true
Amazing jurors, I’m so proud of them.
Judge Merchan has earned my total respect and the jury has earned my total admiration. They've restored my confidence in our system of justice.
We must not see this as a trial about Trump's moral failings, hush money payments, or association with unsavory characters. It was a trial about falsification of business records for the purpose of interfering in an election. That's what he did that was illegal and the jury found him guilty of.
The polls from before the verdict are meaningless, except as future historical data points. The news needs to settle in before any polls can be considered valid, and even then, subject to invalidation as we get closer to November 5.
Yes, and so much for the hand ringing and the despair over things like one of the jurors getting news from “truth social”!!
Unlike many on the right, I, and I suspect many others here, were prepared to accept the outcome even if it had gone the other way. I'm glad it didn't, but I had confidence in the outcome either way.
I was prepared for a hung jury or acquittal, although my sense of the trial, from news reports, was that the prosecution did a good job, while the defense had to listen too much to their client's demands. So I am thrilled that the jury followed the evidence and voted accordingly.
Me too. And the difference between "us" and "them" is that we would have accepted a different result. I'm good with that.
I like my Presidents not convicted of felonies
Trump should never be allowed near the White House again period. He has desecrated everything he ever touched, including Christianity by portraying himself as a second Jesus. The Republicans have dug themselves into a trench and I hope they stay there. Tank all of their ratings at the ballot box.
Susan, you’d think that Christians, especially, would be wary of worshiping a Golden Calf Idol…and a fake-gold plated one at that. I just can’t wrap my head around why “regular” folks worship him….the $$$-folks, yeah, for tax reasons, but the rest, no.
Here here!!
Immediately I went to Fox News….. what a sh@t show! CNN wasn’t much better. None of the main stream media is pointing out the 12 jurors sat and heard the evidence whereas Trump supporters are salivating over him calling it a “witch-hunt” and patting themselves on the back for not being willing to even look at the evidence.
My thanks to this jury for taking duty to heart! Please stay safe!💕
12 jurors + alternate jurors... who also sat through the rigorous days... all so the process itself could happen as intended.
One of the reporters who had been in court everyday - from MSNBC, I think - commented on the highly attentive, focused demeanor of all of the jurors during the trial. Performing one's civic duty at its finest. Steady, indeed.
Yes, The safety of the jurors should be a priority. They requested to go over some of the previous statements and the direction of the judge. May they be safe !
Again I say , I’m proud of this jury.
ABC did a good job
YOU stay steady, Dan. We need you in the arena. Thanks.
Amen
Truth!
My sister and I watched the verdicts being read on live TV. We cried and cheered and hugged and texted our family members. It was a historic moment and it felt like it. Don’t know what’s ahead but this was a great day.
I am glad nobody was in my house because the release would have been scary to witness, so loud did I bawl with relief.
Yes. Yes, it was!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
From Canada: Finally.
As a fellow Canadian, I second that!
Many of you Americans may not realize but I live 30 miles south of Detroit. What happens in the U.S. has a profound effect on we Canadians who live so close to the border. And my fellow Canadians as well who,live north of me!
Me too!
Thank you too.
I was beginning to hope that the "support Canadian" I was promised November of 2015 would finally be assigned to me because this has become an absolute hellscape. Thank you all for understanding that we're not all the same. It has been exhausting for us to live through this absolute nightmare.
Never, ever surrender. We stand with you.
Hear, hear!
Thanks for "hangin" with us...
thank you Canada.
DA Alvin Bragg has shown that no one is above the law. A jury of average people acted on the facts of the case. Now the Supreme Court needs to be held to an ethical standard. Both are necessary to return this nation to an even keel.
Hear hear!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Prayers Republicans won’t want a felon for a President.
They deserve what they get, but let's not let them take our country with them.
I'm still reminding everyone I can (from this news space several weeks ago): When I go to the poll, it will be to vote for democracy and for the USA to remain a democratic country. To vote for T is to vote for a dictator, and now a felon.
I am with you 100%! I, too, have been reminding family and friends that the vote this year is about DEMOCRACY! If you want DEMOCRACY, vote for Biden whether you like him or not. If you prefer fascism, vote for trump and you'll get your foolish wish.
trump is a narcissistic black hole, who only wants power. Anyone who thinks he cares about the United States and its citizens is a fool.
His convicted status won’t matter to the vast majority of the former Republican Party. It’s a cult following. Racism, bigotry, patriarchal society, complete control over women, guns and more guns, christian nationalism, corporate greed, government in your bedroom and church in your school, abolishing taxes is what matters to them. Their vote is for that; the name on the ballot is of secondary importance.
This is so sadly true. No matter what he says or does it does not matter. The followers have completely sold their souls. I keep thinking that people I know and love no matter the crime, have stood by him to the point that we cannot even mention any politics.
You are not alone.
Agree. I’m with you. I have the same experience. It’s sad because I’d love to be celebrating with Cosmos with them.
We are in central TX. So. True.
I am concerned about the repercussions of this court hearing.… I have a very good friend who is pro Trump/husband watches Faux …and tonight she texted to say she couldn’t come over because she had just found out about Trump and was too upset.
That News station is FOX News but in reality ii is FAKE News.
Me too my husband still believes it is a democratic conspiracy. No changing his mind.
I am sorry for you. For me, this would not be something I could not live with. Trump is evil. Everything he says about Biden is called Gaslighting. This is when they turn and accuse the sane people like us, the evil ones. Example: We know that he is wanting to be like Putin and
Hitler but now he is accusing Biden of being a Facist.
On a relative basis, the folks who make up his base pay little in taxes. The don't seem to realize that they are enabling a completely different demographic - the one Mr. T ACTUALLY cares about. Duped, sadly; but proud to blindly follow him nonetheless.
Sadly so
VOTES to deny Trump a return engagement. He did enough damage in the first four years.
Some have said they don't want a convicted felon, to magas it might not matter
The MAGA crazies will believe he’s being persecuted. But sensible Republicans and Independents will see him for what he really is. A crook, a grifter, a liar and a sad human being full of hate.
I am not sure he’s even human. He seems not to care for any living being besides his Narcissistic self which is typical of the Narcissist. He’s not Presidential material for one thing because he is incapable of relating to others pain or even joy. He is incapable of human love except for himself. He only loves himself, he’s incapable of human love. He’s incapable of relating to anyone else. He will always put himself first, second and so on. He will never understand what he’s done wrong either. Is he even human?
I have to sadly disagree with the statement that the Repubs and Indies will come around but they have not. Fox News is still spewing lies. With 91 indictments, one of which is denying his part in the BIG LIE which he still tells along with his innocence of being guilty anything is a witch hunt and persecuted. I pray for the Judge and the members of the jury for the retribution that will be slung their way.
True but they want the power so they stick with him. Look at Mike Johnson, i really thought he might have some integrity after he did the right thing with the aide to Ukraine and Israel bills but no, now he’s showing his true colors.
Are you talking about people like Mike (the Dick) Johnson, the Republican Speaker of the House, or the majority of his fellow evangelical idiots?
🤞🏻
The Rule of Law prevailed … expect the MAGA folks to rail against WE THE PEOPLE … they want the Rule of Donald … we have much more work to do in order to preserve the concept of democracy (government of the people, by the people and for the people) and our democratic republic. This is a step in the right direction! Go USA!
I’m really glad Trump was convicted. If Trump is above the law then it’s time we changed the law and get rid of the electoral college, stopping gerrymandering and set term limits, legalize medical cannabis, get single payer health care, subsidized higher education, protect our public schools, get some controls on monopolies, set term limits and ethical standards for the legislature and Supreme Court, and protect women’s choices (among other things). How about we review the rules for running for president and legislature and consider basic qualifications besides wealth. While we are add it stop political PACs and corporations having human rights. BTW, everything isn’t about race or sexism. Save our social security and stop subsiding big corporations.
Well said. My fear now is the so called Supreme Court. Totally stacked in trumps favor.
😣
You have a great agenda that would move our nation forward in the right direction for the right reasons.
Justice was served !
I can finally exhale@
Oh, happy day !!!