When it comes to history, we are always in the middle of something. The links between the past, the present, and the future should force us to recognize, with humility, that there are no tidy beginnings and endings, no neatly defined chapters, in human affairs. We may wish to put history into clean boxes and eras, but it really doesn’t work that way. History doesn’t march along in unison, it doesn’t rattle along a track, it floods and ebbs and seeps and thunders. It is all connected and to consider it in any other way is to risk missing a lot more than what you’re seeing.
Can it be a reflection of a divided American society being replicated in its politics and policies, that the USA, at the height of its economic and military power, has not won a war since WWII? Instead in every case, it has left behind chaos and anarchy. Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq, and now Afghanistan have been either returned to their pre-war mayhem or have been left to fend for themselves. If America cannot tackle its own civil rights, race, social equity issues, how can it be expected to do so in foreign countries they most of the time do not even understand the culture? and more importantly how does it continue to believe that it can? Until it does take into account its own weaknesses and learn from its mistakes, the USA is bound to continue to repeat history over and over
"Afghanistan, graveyard of empires." This has been said of many, many others who thought they could wage war there or conquer this country. Hubris, is always at the heart of leaders who think history doesn't apply to them. The problem is; No one is ever held accountable for making terrible, preventable mistakes. GW should've been held accountable for being led into a war in Iraq by those who had hubristic tendencies. He should also have been asked why we were still in Afghanistan when we found out OSBL was not in ToraBora and he said himself nation building was not on his agenda? A true leader takes advice from those around him but doesn't acquiesce to their desires and tends to know a bit about potential consequences. Anyone with a grasp on history would've known we couldn't do anything lasting in this 7th Century country. The British bailed out, the Soviets bailed out, and now it's out turn. It's unfortunately just a fact that we learned nothing from Viet Nam. Finally, the armchair quarterbacks who have no military experience should STFU about this pull out. You don't have any idea behind the thought process of exiting this country that shouldn't have collapsed in 11 days from a military we spent years training. I feel for those (some who are my fellow Veterans) who served there and many who lost lives or had their lives forever changed by wounds seen and unseen. For the usual sacrifices that are not in your control we still have to say that a grateful nation thanks you.
What are we really doing? It's hard to see we are succeeding at anything but enriching defense contractors. A quick look at our experience in Viet Nam, Iran, Iraq, Libya, etc. show that not once has a democracy led by our choice of leaders been the result of our military involvement. We try to install leadership that will favor us, usually at the expense of the local population. There is always the smell of, or open corruption. In Afghanistan we supported an ineffective regime that never stood a chance of unifying the country. They couldn't control the whole country even with our help. The army was poorly administered with soldiers going unpaid as a common story. The Afghan army had no real motivation to fight. If you won the war the corrupt government would continue to exploit you. If you lost the Taliban would kill you. Why not surrender and join the Taliban? The men in Afghanistan know they are in a superior position to the women no matter who wins. Better to be on the winning side, which everyone knew would eventually be the Taliban. They are an ancient and strict patriarchal society, the men didn't want that to change. They sold out their mothers, sisters, wives and daughters. US involvement wasn't going to change that. Not if we stayed 20 more years. Getting out was going to be messy at any time. Get out now is the best we can do. Now let's sit back and watch how the military industrial complex sells us a new war or needed new level of preparedness. You know it's coming.
Spot on Dan! Leaving is always painful. You really made a great point that we are actually in the middle of this war and it’s about time. The failure of a Republican experiment The New American Century has cost everyone in this country in so many ways. Exporting democracy and nation building is a hard task if the inhabitants of the chosen experiment aren’t all in or understood the task chosen for them by a super power and it’s industrial military complex. Our brave and capable boots on the ground trained 300,000 Afghanistan Troops that should have been able to hold off 75,000 Taliban, for more than a few days. I believe Biden made a difficult but necessary decision to get Americans out and if possible others if we have time. The Afghanistan people have to stay and fight no matter the horrible cost in human life . Sadly the events unfolding today were as you explained set in motion 20 years ago and possibly the people of Afghanistan can gain the willingness to join together and fight for what kinda of life they want for their own. Dan Rather I loved how you weaved a tapestry of historical timelines as examples of how right know may have been the perfect time . Possibly An Afghanistan Copper smith will Ride Tonight.
My goodness, Dan. When you get going writing you do not seem to know how to stick to a topic, but wander here and there until the reader gets lost.
Be that as it may, please do not water down or excuse Biden's massive, earthshaking, far-reaching, stupendous mistake in exiting from Afghanistan. I say this as a long-term Democrat who voted for Biden and all the Democrats I could vote for. Biden handed Trump and the Republican Party his head on a platter. It was one of the most idiotic and preventable mistakes in history.
Let's start and end with Bush 43's terrible mistake. Not to mention Johnson/Nixon's huge bunder in Viet Nam. We lost thousands of brave and dear American souls. Let's not forget WW2 and the "Greatest Generation" that fought to defeat Hitler and Hirohito. Biden made the right decision. But he had no exit plan. Just like Saigon. He should have known better!
Afghanistan morphed from an anti-terrorist operation to a US base to get lithium and poppies under a Public pretext of “nation building in US image.” Those who don’t know Afghanistan as a lot of ancient tribalism bought the story of US propaganda. Especially the story about education, freedom and governmental participation for women. What was not focused on was the looting at the top, and how the US was buying military services which would last until the money stopped flowing. When the soldiers weren’t paid nor fed nor given bullets nor air cover, they left quickly. While leaving, they made the US looking Inept, foolish, and pathetic. Which we are because mass media feeds to world press junk reporting.
I’ve been pondering this….this thing that was always most likely going to end with the lack of results that these 20 years did. From the moment we went in it was called out….the British in colonial days, the Soviets. How were we going to be different.
We went in with a very tactical purpose, then got caught in strategic initiatives that were going to be near impossible to complete at best.
We threw a limited war at the Taliban for two decades, and they have not been weakened at all. There is no easy fix for this part of the world.
This failure is only compounded by what is looking like a withdrawal of moronic proportions. We trained so many Afghan troops and equipped them and they immediately handed it over.
My heart breaks for those that will be caught in this and persecuted, whether it’s those that supported American interests, or women in general. I just don’t see how one fixes it.
Why did we not go into Afghanistan 20 years ago with say 75K troops and focus SOLELY on killing Al Queada and Osama bin Laden? Why did we start a war with the Taliban who did not attack us on 911; and who do not have international ambitions? If we did that; if we were OUT OF THERE in three years at the max, then I believe USA would have been safe and thousands of lives spared and trillions of dollars saved. THERE WAS NO REAL JUSTIFICATION to start a war with the Taliban!! George W Bush used POOR JUDGEMENT!? I do not think that ONE MAN should have that kind of decision making power!! Congress controls the money; but they always say <yes> to a request to go to war because the military generals are urging us to do it! We have got to be smarter!! War should be the LAST TOOL that comes out of the toolbox. And---we should not start unilateral wars with people who did not attack us!! Because of political decisions we are acting stupid! America MUST DO BETTER!!!
The mistake was going there. The bigger mistake was staying for so long. The American people gained nothing and paid in troops and taxes to corporate profits over the conflict. The Afghanis could not muster the will of a western nation to create a whole and safe government, and it is no surprise that they could not. Cultures are very hard to change. Yet another failed venture in democratic nation building.
Good commentary! Yes, I think what is happening now would have happened with any president who ended the war. One can look at Iraq, the end of the Civil War in the US, and other wars to see this (Viet Nam comes to mind). Once a vacuum of power is left, someone fills it. That someone can either chose to make life better or worse. Like you mentioned above, we turned away from Afghanistan the minute we decided to go to war in Iraq. So much for nation building! Have we learned our lesson yet? I am glad Biden took our troops out of Afghanistan. It needed to be done long ago.
Three things (1) It was a bad decision to go into Afghanistan to begin with; (2) There was absolutely no strategic planning involved throughout our time there; (3) It was a misogynistic/war lord culture that has no concept of democracy and is fundamentally corrupt. How did the "Powers That Be" not recognize the futility?
Thank you: sober & to the point
Keeping on with LOVE & Health
Can it be a reflection of a divided American society being replicated in its politics and policies, that the USA, at the height of its economic and military power, has not won a war since WWII? Instead in every case, it has left behind chaos and anarchy. Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq, and now Afghanistan have been either returned to their pre-war mayhem or have been left to fend for themselves. If America cannot tackle its own civil rights, race, social equity issues, how can it be expected to do so in foreign countries they most of the time do not even understand the culture? and more importantly how does it continue to believe that it can? Until it does take into account its own weaknesses and learn from its mistakes, the USA is bound to continue to repeat history over and over
While I agree with many of your stated opinions and historic facts I differ with the following.
1) I am a supporter of Biden as a healer his administration has executed a very poor and unacceptable withdrawal from Afghanistan.
2) Today's technology's enabling unrestricted opinion sharing is causing Americans to become more devided.
The media looks for and sensationalizes most news for ratings and only negative events. There are many motivators for executing news as presented.
3) Those owning and controling what and how news is presented to viewers, the American and global public, as pupits under their control.
Thank you, Mr. Rather. I appreciate your sharing your sense of history and balance over the long term. It helps.
"Afghanistan, graveyard of empires." This has been said of many, many others who thought they could wage war there or conquer this country. Hubris, is always at the heart of leaders who think history doesn't apply to them. The problem is; No one is ever held accountable for making terrible, preventable mistakes. GW should've been held accountable for being led into a war in Iraq by those who had hubristic tendencies. He should also have been asked why we were still in Afghanistan when we found out OSBL was not in ToraBora and he said himself nation building was not on his agenda? A true leader takes advice from those around him but doesn't acquiesce to their desires and tends to know a bit about potential consequences. Anyone with a grasp on history would've known we couldn't do anything lasting in this 7th Century country. The British bailed out, the Soviets bailed out, and now it's out turn. It's unfortunately just a fact that we learned nothing from Viet Nam. Finally, the armchair quarterbacks who have no military experience should STFU about this pull out. You don't have any idea behind the thought process of exiting this country that shouldn't have collapsed in 11 days from a military we spent years training. I feel for those (some who are my fellow Veterans) who served there and many who lost lives or had their lives forever changed by wounds seen and unseen. For the usual sacrifices that are not in your control we still have to say that a grateful nation thanks you.
What are we really doing? It's hard to see we are succeeding at anything but enriching defense contractors. A quick look at our experience in Viet Nam, Iran, Iraq, Libya, etc. show that not once has a democracy led by our choice of leaders been the result of our military involvement. We try to install leadership that will favor us, usually at the expense of the local population. There is always the smell of, or open corruption. In Afghanistan we supported an ineffective regime that never stood a chance of unifying the country. They couldn't control the whole country even with our help. The army was poorly administered with soldiers going unpaid as a common story. The Afghan army had no real motivation to fight. If you won the war the corrupt government would continue to exploit you. If you lost the Taliban would kill you. Why not surrender and join the Taliban? The men in Afghanistan know they are in a superior position to the women no matter who wins. Better to be on the winning side, which everyone knew would eventually be the Taliban. They are an ancient and strict patriarchal society, the men didn't want that to change. They sold out their mothers, sisters, wives and daughters. US involvement wasn't going to change that. Not if we stayed 20 more years. Getting out was going to be messy at any time. Get out now is the best we can do. Now let's sit back and watch how the military industrial complex sells us a new war or needed new level of preparedness. You know it's coming.
Spot on Dan! Leaving is always painful. You really made a great point that we are actually in the middle of this war and it’s about time. The failure of a Republican experiment The New American Century has cost everyone in this country in so many ways. Exporting democracy and nation building is a hard task if the inhabitants of the chosen experiment aren’t all in or understood the task chosen for them by a super power and it’s industrial military complex. Our brave and capable boots on the ground trained 300,000 Afghanistan Troops that should have been able to hold off 75,000 Taliban, for more than a few days. I believe Biden made a difficult but necessary decision to get Americans out and if possible others if we have time. The Afghanistan people have to stay and fight no matter the horrible cost in human life . Sadly the events unfolding today were as you explained set in motion 20 years ago and possibly the people of Afghanistan can gain the willingness to join together and fight for what kinda of life they want for their own. Dan Rather I loved how you weaved a tapestry of historical timelines as examples of how right know may have been the perfect time . Possibly An Afghanistan Copper smith will Ride Tonight.
My goodness, Dan. When you get going writing you do not seem to know how to stick to a topic, but wander here and there until the reader gets lost.
Be that as it may, please do not water down or excuse Biden's massive, earthshaking, far-reaching, stupendous mistake in exiting from Afghanistan. I say this as a long-term Democrat who voted for Biden and all the Democrats I could vote for. Biden handed Trump and the Republican Party his head on a platter. It was one of the most idiotic and preventable mistakes in history.
Let's start and end with Bush 43's terrible mistake. Not to mention Johnson/Nixon's huge bunder in Viet Nam. We lost thousands of brave and dear American souls. Let's not forget WW2 and the "Greatest Generation" that fought to defeat Hitler and Hirohito. Biden made the right decision. But he had no exit plan. Just like Saigon. He should have known better!
Afghanistan morphed from an anti-terrorist operation to a US base to get lithium and poppies under a Public pretext of “nation building in US image.” Those who don’t know Afghanistan as a lot of ancient tribalism bought the story of US propaganda. Especially the story about education, freedom and governmental participation for women. What was not focused on was the looting at the top, and how the US was buying military services which would last until the money stopped flowing. When the soldiers weren’t paid nor fed nor given bullets nor air cover, they left quickly. While leaving, they made the US looking Inept, foolish, and pathetic. Which we are because mass media feeds to world press junk reporting.
I’ve been pondering this….this thing that was always most likely going to end with the lack of results that these 20 years did. From the moment we went in it was called out….the British in colonial days, the Soviets. How were we going to be different.
We went in with a very tactical purpose, then got caught in strategic initiatives that were going to be near impossible to complete at best.
We threw a limited war at the Taliban for two decades, and they have not been weakened at all. There is no easy fix for this part of the world.
This failure is only compounded by what is looking like a withdrawal of moronic proportions. We trained so many Afghan troops and equipped them and they immediately handed it over.
My heart breaks for those that will be caught in this and persecuted, whether it’s those that supported American interests, or women in general. I just don’t see how one fixes it.
Why did we not go into Afghanistan 20 years ago with say 75K troops and focus SOLELY on killing Al Queada and Osama bin Laden? Why did we start a war with the Taliban who did not attack us on 911; and who do not have international ambitions? If we did that; if we were OUT OF THERE in three years at the max, then I believe USA would have been safe and thousands of lives spared and trillions of dollars saved. THERE WAS NO REAL JUSTIFICATION to start a war with the Taliban!! George W Bush used POOR JUDGEMENT!? I do not think that ONE MAN should have that kind of decision making power!! Congress controls the money; but they always say <yes> to a request to go to war because the military generals are urging us to do it! We have got to be smarter!! War should be the LAST TOOL that comes out of the toolbox. And---we should not start unilateral wars with people who did not attack us!! Because of political decisions we are acting stupid! America MUST DO BETTER!!!
The mistake was going there. The bigger mistake was staying for so long. The American people gained nothing and paid in troops and taxes to corporate profits over the conflict. The Afghanis could not muster the will of a western nation to create a whole and safe government, and it is no surprise that they could not. Cultures are very hard to change. Yet another failed venture in democratic nation building.
Good commentary! Yes, I think what is happening now would have happened with any president who ended the war. One can look at Iraq, the end of the Civil War in the US, and other wars to see this (Viet Nam comes to mind). Once a vacuum of power is left, someone fills it. That someone can either chose to make life better or worse. Like you mentioned above, we turned away from Afghanistan the minute we decided to go to war in Iraq. So much for nation building! Have we learned our lesson yet? I am glad Biden took our troops out of Afghanistan. It needed to be done long ago.
Three things (1) It was a bad decision to go into Afghanistan to begin with; (2) There was absolutely no strategic planning involved throughout our time there; (3) It was a misogynistic/war lord culture that has no concept of democracy and is fundamentally corrupt. How did the "Powers That Be" not recognize the futility?
I am happy to share my comments. You cannot save Biden. He is incompetent and dangerous to this country.